Jesus does not use perfect people to broadcast his message, if he had to wait for that, then the message would never be spoken. After Jimmy Swaggart fell, and Billy Graham started preaching all wierd, and Andrae Crouch got bust, and and and and and and and... I could not listen to them...but that was only because I wanted a perfect message from imperfect souls. God has always used imperfect souls to communicate his love. Once I gave way just a little I was able to receive the blessing of the Lord as he restored them, and took out that COLLOSAL, GIGANTIC, ENORMOUS, STINKING JUDGMENTAL ROCK, the MASSIVE TREE OUT OF MY EYES and let me see the cross and realized there are only sinners here and we don't hammer down the nails, for that's been done! mmm?
Mike Warnke has repented and followed the counsel of numerous Christians to be restored...remember, if you expect grace for your MANY sins, then you are required to give likewise. Furthermore, I hesitate to believe anything that Mr Trott wrote, since he is quite anti-Christian in his personal extremist liberal views.
First of all, Mr. Trott is not anti-Christian. It's amazing to me how anyone who does not subscribe to the right wing, white Jesus, fundamentalist dogma, they are suddenly deemed anti-Christian *SMH* I totally agree with you, however, re: grace. Maybe you should re-read your own words and extend them to Mr. Trott despite your own disagreement with his theology.
Anyways. I appreciate the posts. This music was foundational to my life. I am looking for anything by Tami Gunden!!
My refernce to anti-Christian was a reference to the "liberal" views held by Trott (in case you didn't get the grammar).
Trott's Christianity allows for many things that historical and Biblical Christianity NEVER would endorse (of course, Jesus is the source of historical and Biblical Christianity).
Where did your view that I am or Jesus is or my Christianity is "white" come from? (Is that racism against those of certain skin colors?)
Jesus loved dogma and was quite dogmatic ("I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life...no one comes to the Father except through Me").
BTW - I never judged Trott with regards to grace, I CLEARLY judged his anti-Christian liberalism (grammar is important here)
I have actually PERSONALLY discussed MANY issues with Jon Trott and he is an OUTSPOKEN liberal (he describes himself as liberal without apology). Perhaps you ought to investigate before stating falsely that Trott is not liberal, since he has stated for himself many times that he is a proud liberal.
That does NOT implicate Glenn Kaiser as liberal in the same way that Trott is. (Glenn is probably the best known person affiliated with JPUSA and the founder of Rez Band). Glenn, who seems to disagree with Mr Trott on many issues actually appears to be conservative, according to his writings and teachings and lyrics.
I wrote specifically about Trott in my above reply, not JPUSA nor of Glenn K, nor Rez Band.
Furthermore, I also stated that Warnke has repented, so perhaps your indication that I wrote otherwise needs to be reviewed by yourself for accuracy.
Just a Bill, do you believe in grace and repentance? Do you believe a person can be restored after being under the authority of other pastors for a long time? Does the "false witness" you wrote about include telling half the truth?
So, you both believe that liberalism and Christianity cannot co-exist? I tend to think by Jesus' associations and own words that he most likely felt differently.
And yes, I meant what I said when I said "White Jesus": the Jesus that has been carried down through the ages to surpress, enslave and judge. I find it interesting that modern day Christians have become the very thing that Jesus came to tear down. Jesus' law was love, not this right wing agenda that Christians herald today as if they were modern day Pharisees.
It's sad to me that such a beautiful message has been transformed to such a message of hate.
Mr Dillinger, it is true and has already been proven repeatedly that modern liberalism is to Christianity as oil is to water. They do not...can not mix)
Modern liberalism is one of the "new" ways that Satan deceives even some believers, as he tries to appear as an angel of light (yet there are many liberals who simply do not believe at all in the true Jesus of Scripture, since modern liberalism itself is against Jesus and His words).
Recently, most political liberals have come to realize that liberalism is coming to be known to be false and useless by most people (this has been proven by the most well-known liberals: those who founded Communism, fascism, etc in the 19th and 20th centuries).
Because the modern liberal worldview has been shown to be such an obvious failure, today's libs are now using the name "progressive" for their regressive views (the same views that already failed miserably under the title of "liberalism").
Eventually, religious liberals will get on board with the political libs and realize their worldview has been devastated (the religious libs will probably simply try to rename their view, too, while acting as though it is something different. Those who are rational and informed, however, will see through the lie of Satan they put forth, too).
This discussion will likely go nowhere unless we deal with specifics, so...liberalism will likely be dealt another fatal blow on this bulletin board, unless you aren't ready to defend it logically (then again, we all know that libs don't buy into that logic stuff, right?)
Another thing, Mr Dillinger: the haters of Jesus Himself and non-whites are not white people as your statement indicates (your statement is racist against whites).
It would be VERY wise for you NOT to assume conservative people here or anywhere are white, because you will be proven wrong repeatedly.
The slaves were FREED in the USA during the Civil War because so many white men fought against the liberal Democrats who were the slave holders.
In actuality, the left are the group most responsible for disputing Jesus own words and works (and, as I stated above, it was the DEMOCRATS who fought to retain slavery during the Civil War...Lincoln was a Republican, just so you will be informed).
As far as "Jesus' law" that you wrote about: to Jesus, love never meant acting as though good was bad and bad was good.
What's REALLY sad is that so many (libs) are deceived into believing Satan's lies instead of accepting the obvious truths that Jesus spoke about in the Bible.
Mr Dillinger, it is true and has already been proven repeatedly that modern liberalism is to Christianity as oil is to water. They do not...can not mix)
Modern liberalism is one of the "new" ways that Satan deceives even some believers, as he tries to appear as an angel of light (yet there are many liberals who simply do not believe at all in the true Jesus of Scripture, since modern liberalism itself is against Jesus and His words).
Recently, most political liberals have come to realize that liberalism is coming to be known to be false and useless by most people (this has been proven by the most well-known liberals: those who founded Communism, fascism, etc in the 19th and 20th centuries).
Because the modern liberal worldview has been shown to be such an obvious failure, today's libs are now using the name "progressive" for their regressive views (the same views that already failed miserably under the title of "liberalism").
Eventually, religious liberals will get on board with the political libs and realize their worldview has been devastated (the religious libs will probably simply try to rename their view, too, while acting as though it is something different. Those who are rational and informed, however, will see through the lie of Satan they put forth, too).
This discussion will likely go nowhere unless we deal with specifics, so...liberalism will likely be dealt another fatal blow on this bulletin board, unless you aren't ready to defend it logically (then again, we all know that libs don't buy into that logic stuff, right?)
Another thing, Mr Dillinger: the haters of Jesus Himself and non-whites are not white people as your statement indicates (your statement is racist against whites).
It would be VERY wise for you NOT to assume conservative people here or anywhere are always white, because you will be proven wrong repeatedly.
The slaves were FREED in the USA during the Civil War because so many white men fought against the liberal Democrats who were the slave holders.
In actuality, the left are the group most responsible for disputing Jesus' own words and works (and, as I stated above, it was the DEMOCRATS who fought to retain slavery during the Civil War...Lincoln was a Republican, just so you will be informed).
As far as "Jesus' law" that you wrote about: to Jesus, love never meant acting as though good was bad and bad was good.
What's REALLY sad is that so many (libs) are deceived into believing Satan's lies instead of accepting the obvious truths that Jesus spoke about in the Bible.
Holy cow, guys I really think we should leave the politics outta this! It seems to be getting a little out of hand here, let's remember we're all brothers and sisters in Christ and we can disagree and still love each other.
btw...obviously, as history has shown,, democrats and republicans have swapped political views (i am left-wing, but not partian).
secondly, i don't herald lincoln a some advocate who helped free slaves. he is recorded as saving that if he could have ended the war any other way he would have.
finally, your offense at my supposedly racist statement proves my point. i think you protest too much. i am white...so if i want to blame white jesus, i can. nor do i assume that all conservatives are white; however, i can assume that conservativism as we know it today is heralded by Christianity, which if i'm not mistaken, in it's American form began with white people. slaves did not get dragged to america praising white jesus. they were converted by their masters to believe in jesus, who they were taught said that they should obey their masters.
Finally, don't preach to me about logic. Mainstream christians believe in a physical rapture, a big trumpet sounding and people flying thru the air, talking animals and people turning to pillars of salt...THAT is not logic...that is absurd.
Last time I checked, the Bible said a minister of the Gospel had to have a good reputation - gee, I think maybe that crosses Warnke out. Also, last time I checked, repentence - true repentence - entailed ADMITTING your lies, hypocrisy, etc. Warnke has NEVER made a public apology to the MASSES of people he blatantly LIED to in print, in concert, and on his recordings. EVER. All one has to do is listen to the three offerings here and you can easily see how his Christian "testimony" isn't cohesive - it's loaded with lies. Its foundation falters, and his so-called ministry is now meaningless, except when it comes to the souls saved by this lie-spewing ass of Baalam.
Obviously you have far more issues than you want to address here since you have chosen to end this conversation.
You have correctly stated that liberalism is not affiliated with "the Jesus (I) know" since I worship the Jesus of Scripture, not liberalism.
As to "racism" the saddest racist is the white man who blames every white man for other white and black mens' faults. I never was a slave, nor did I ever hold slaves, yet I know historically that some blacks held other blacks as slaves and some of those being held were then sold into slavery to other countries/races, including to American whites (as well as all around the world).
Racism knows no color nor boundary, for ALL shades of men have been held as slaves at one time or another (today people always focus on the short time span in the USA when black slaves were held). Of course that was wrong, but so was the holding and selling of blacks BY other brothers into slavery all around the world. So was it wrong when Egypt enslaved the Jews, on and on, slavery has know no boundary nor limit over the centuries.
Jesus was never white, and he NEVER became white based upon the people believing in Him. Racism is a crutch for the left, that is why so many non-whites are recently leaving their past associations with liberalism.
The preaching of Jesus went to the African continent (and MANY blacks were converted) LONG before the USA every came into being (the Bible and history prove this fact to be true), so Jesus is no "color" - He is everyman and EVERY color.
So you think that logic prevents God from doing the supernatural like turning Job's wife into a pillar of salt, or animals donkey talking? (You wrote that these are "absurd." Interestingly, you have proven my point: liberals DON'T believe in the Scripture (Jesus' own words), hence liberalism and Christianity DO not mix (just like oil and water).
Obviously you have far more issues than you want to address here since you have chosen to end this conversation.
You have correctly stated that liberalism is not affiliated with "the Jesus (I) know" since I worship the Jesus of Scripture, not liberalism.
As to "racism" the saddest racist is the white man who blames every white man for other white and black mens' faults. I never was a slave, nor did I ever hold slaves, yet I know historically that some blacks held other blacks as slaves and some of those being held were then sold into slavery to other countries/races, including to American whites (as well as all around the world).
Racism knows no color nor boundary, for ALL shades of men have been held as slaves at one time or another (today people always focus on the short time span in the USA when black slaves were held). Of course that was wrong, but so was the holding and selling of blacks BY other brothers into slavery all around the world. So was it wrong when Egypt enslaved the Jews, on and on, slavery has know no boundary nor limit over the centuries.
Jesus was never white, and he NEVER became white based upon the people believing in Him. Racism is a crutch for the left, that is why so many non-whites are recently leaving their past associations with liberalism.
The preaching of Jesus went to the African continent (and MANY blacks were converted) LONG before the USA every came into being (the Bible and history prove this fact to be true), so Jesus is no "color" - He is everyman and EVERY color.
So you think that logic prevents God from doing the supernatural like turning Lot's wife into a pillar of salt (Gen 28:18), or animals such as Balaam's donkey talking (Num 22:27-29)? (You wrote that these are "absurd." Interestingly, you have proven my point: liberals DON'T believe in the Scripture (Jesus' own words), hence liberalism and Christianity DO not mix (just like oil and water).
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter whether you are convinced that Mike Warnke has truly repented or not. That's a separate issue from this one fact:
Mike Warnke's tales about his life and background are nothing but lies.
Now, if you appreciate his comic delivery, and the way he tells his bogus stories makes you laugh out loud, then go ahead and enjoy his records. It's a free country, and one can appreciate a stand-up comic for their abilities apart from the truthfulness (or lack thereof) of his stories.
Personally, I never found Mike to be all that funny, although I did find his first record, "Alive," to be extremely engaging and the best thing he ever did. It's unfortunate that very little of it is true, but his storytelling skills are impressive.
Obviously you have far more issues than you want to address here since you have chosen to end this conversation.
You have correctly stated that liberalism is not affiliated with "the Jesus (I) know" since I worship the Jesus of Scripture, not liberalism.
As to "racism" the saddest racist is the white man who blames every white man for other white and black mens' faults. I never was a slave, nor did I ever hold slaves, yet I know historically that some blacks held other blacks as slaves and some of those being held were then sold into slavery to other countries/races, including to American whites (as well as all around the world).
Racism knows no color nor boundary, for ALL shades of men have been held as slaves at one time or another (today people always focus on the short time span in the USA when black slaves were held). Of course that was wrong, but so was the holding and selling of blacks BY other brothers into slavery all around the world. So was it wrong when Egypt enslaved the Jews, on and on, slavery has know no boundary nor limit over the centuries.
Jesus was never white, and he NEVER became white based upon the people believing in Him. Racism is a crutch for the left, that is why so many non-whites are recently leaving their past associations with liberalism.
The preaching of Jesus went to the African continent (and MANY blacks were converted) LONG before the USA every came into being (the Bible and history prove this fact to be true), so Jesus is no "color" - He is everyman and EVERY color.
According to your post, you think that logic prevents God from doing the supernatural like turning Lot's wife into a pillar of salt (Gen 28:18), or animals such as Balaam's donkey talking (Num 22:27-29)? (You wrote that these are "absurd." Interestingly, you have proven my point: liberals DON'T believe in the Scripture (Jesus' own words), hence liberalism and Christianity DO not mix (just like oil and water).
Anonymous, I just want to restate that as I have posted, this is NOT simply about politics...I have made it very clear that I am concerned about modern liberal theology, NOT primarily liberal political theory.
Those who claim to be Christians and at the same time adherents to modern liberalism also 99% of the time endorse perversions like homosexuality; abortion (ie - murder of babies); they DON'T believe the Bible is God's inerrant Word, but they pick and choose whatever makes them feel good inside and disagree with the rest, contrary to Jesus' commands to believe His Word (none of it will fail, He said, meaning it is ALL 100% true in Matthew 5:18). This list of liberal anti-Christian beliefs goes on in so many other unbelievable ways, it is sickening to true believers in Jesus.
The libs usually give as their justfication for not following Jesus' Word (if they attempt to make any justification at all) that they don't want people to feel bad for being sinners, so it is against their views to tell people that they are sinners or call anything sinful. But, Jesus made it completely clear that NOBODY is going to become a Christian without FIRST repenting of their sinfulness and sinful acts (that requires one to admit that s/he is a sinner, so sin MUST be pointed out and admitted to for what it is before any person can be saved - this proves liberalism will never allow a person to be saved).
These issues are not primarily political...nope, they are spiritual because they speak to the utter depravity of the liberals who disagree with many of the specific things Jesus has spoken to.
I didn't know this comment list had become a debate blog ;) Personally, I've had enough of Mike Warnke....and would like to see some more "real" music posted.
I was a huge Mike Warnke fan back in his prime- when he was telling all of his lies. Seeker says he has been "restored." My question is, since he never had a valid ministry based on truth, he came to fame based on a completely fabricated testimoney, what has he been restored to? He was a con artist from the very beginning. He was not a legitimate minister that fell into sin, he was a con man, womanizer, and fraud. I hope he has truely come to God now, but he has no business in public ministry.
whether or not mike has repented shouldn't be up for discussion here. whether or not mike should continue public ministry probably shouldn't be up for discussion here, but i suppose is fair game if people really want to. the recordings themselves, its seems to me, should be the discussion at hand. i feel that if you, the informed listener, still find enjoyment or even encouragement from these recordings, knowing the artist/minister has been "debunked", fine. however, i think it might be irresponsible to distribute them as evangelical materials. sapling converts can be easily "choked" out of establishing firm roots if they realize they've been lied to and become disillusioned. there is a reason the bible holds that teachers/preachers are held to stricter judgement from god than others. sure, every soul is responsible for their own beliefs about god regardless of the bad behaviour of others (ie, "mike was a liar, therefore i didn't believe in you" will not be a reasonable excuse), but helping others fall is a terrible thing.
regarding the liberal vs conservative discussion...probably not appropriate for this blog, but if truly desired, perhaps it should be welcome. however, is it really productive? i've rarely seen the discussion handled properly. liberal bashing, from the pulpit or informal, very often twists biblical truths to support an overall conservative world view rather than attack specific issues making it an "us vs them" scenario rather than a truth seeking mission. liberal bashing is a sin, in my opinion. its divisive, unproductive and focuses energy away from our prime directive. instead of alienating liberal christians and liberal "sinners" (ie, homosexuals) the message of god's love for all should become a unifying theme in our lives. its funny to me how some seem to think their sin of hate and exclusion of others is somehow better than the sin of homosexuality. i wouldn't be careless enough to tell someone that abortion isn't sin or that homosexuality isn't sin, but neither would i want to alienate them from the cross by sending so many negative messages out either. its not up to sinners to become free from sin BEFORE they can come to jesus, they come to jesus with all their sin and let him do his work in their lives and WE welcome them.
Until just this evening, I had no knowledge of anything questionable in Mike Warnke's life. I have several of his tapes from back in the 80s and still listen to them. The message he gives has never been anything but uplifting for me. What the status of his repentence is at this time is between him and God. It doesn't change the message he gave, however he gave it - that Jesus died for our sins, God's grace is free and given if we only ask for it, with no conditions or questions asked. Even Peter, the favourite disciple of Jesus, denied that he even knew him. If we wait for perfect, sinless people to carry the message, there would be no message, and not a single church in which to worship. Look at the content, not the container.
I’m sorry, I know these posts are old, but I really am tired of hearing people talk about “right-wing” Christians like they are some sort of a ghoul from a horror flick. You want to be a modern liberal and be Christian? Ok.. Only pick out the parts of the Bible that you want to, stop using the words “repent” and “hell” and start saying things like “Jesus is not the only way to God” because that is what you are signing up for. Be ready to support the slaughter of unborn children, support gay marriage and sex outside of marriage, no matter what the Bible says about it. Remember, you are only going to follow the parts you like.
Give me a break. If you can honestly go along with the modern agenda of the left today, I would really question whether you are a Christian or not. Wait.. here comes the Alinsky tactics.. call conservatives racists, even though it has nothing to do with race. Call them hate-mongers because they believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong. I’m so tired of the lies, the double standards. Seriously.. If you are a modern liberal, you really need to realize that most likely, you are not a Christian. Read the Bible. That is the word of God. It’s all very clear. Stop being blinded by the lies of the world. Stop running your mouth and repeating what your favorite celebrity says and READ THE BIBLE. Repent, Trust in Christ, Pray, Read His Word, Grow Spiritually, and you’ll stop living a lie. Sorry for the dramatic typing, but it’s an important subject.
I am the one that just left the message saying "READ THE BIBLE". I should have added this, so I am now. Before anyone assumes anything about me. I am a Black Woman, baby, and I'm proud of it. I am Born Again, Conservative, Black, Female, American and Proud. Thank you.
Tim Dillinger said, "i'm done with this conversation."
... for which I'm grateful. You added heat but no light.
Your arguments were typical for shallow, self-righteous liberals who believe what they're told, all the while criticizing conservatives for doing that very thing, which, if you has paid attention to Seeker, you would have seen that he had the facts at his command, not euphemisms, catchphrases and innuendo, which, while not the exclusive domain of the liberals, are used by them because it's easier to feign knowledge that way and dismiss those who disagree with umbrage (as you did), without actually using or showing any knowledge facts (but having the self-righteous disdain down pat!).
Look again at your remarks and see that you showed us no knowledge, only bias, contempt and disdain.
But that is the liberal way... once again, all the while criticizing the conservatives for being that way.
I guess forgiveness is for the next world. I am sure there must be a laugh in here somewhere, but so far all I read are trash Mike, Mike's trash. I never met the guy, but if there's one thing I've learned, majority opinion is generally wrong, so I can't wait to meet this guy in the next world. He's probably going to be hysterical. hahahahaha!!!
SICK! I am bored with the race labels. How's this for judgement? Some of you people here are judging God as irrelevant. In Genesis, we read that man was made from the dust of the earth. In Acts 17, I find that we're made of One Blood. Who are we to entertain this race rubbish then?
Jon, you already destroyed the man, his message, and to some extent, the Gospel. Isn't that enough? Can't you leave it be now? Or was that the pinnacle of your career, to be revisited for a lifetime, by trolling blogs for any slightly positive reference to Mr. Warnke. Do have any idea how pathetic that is? I wonder if you could stand against that same level of scrutiny yourself. Sadly, I once respected you. I won't make that mistake again.
I used to be a major Mike Warnke fan, but after his being exposed as a fraud by cornerstone Magazine I can't listen to him any more.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/warnke_index.htm
Talk about a blast form the past! I heard Isaac Airfreight, but this guy simply cripples on in stitches. Heheheheeheeeehehehheeeeheee
ReplyDeleteJesus does not use perfect people to broadcast his message, if he had to wait for that, then the message would never be spoken. After Jimmy Swaggart fell, and Billy Graham started preaching all wierd, and Andrae Crouch got bust, and and and and and and and... I could not listen to them...but that was only because I wanted a perfect message from imperfect souls. God has always used imperfect souls to communicate his love. Once I gave way just a little I was able to receive the blessing of the Lord as he restored them, and took out that COLLOSAL, GIGANTIC, ENORMOUS, STINKING JUDGMENTAL ROCK, the MASSIVE TREE OUT OF MY EYES and let me see the cross and realized there are only sinners here and we don't hammer down the nails, for that's been done! mmm?
ReplyDeleteGot any more Warnke? Would love to get the rest of his stuff. Thanks,
ReplyDeleteDave
Mike Warnke has repented and followed the counsel of numerous Christians to be restored...remember, if you expect grace for your MANY sins, then you are required to give likewise. Furthermore, I hesitate to believe anything that Mr Trott wrote, since he is quite anti-Christian in his personal extremist liberal views.
ReplyDeleteJohn Trott wrote for Cornerstone Magazine, sponsored by Jesus People USA. He is anything BUT a liberal.
ReplyDeleteMike Warnke's story has been proven to be lies. I'm sorry, "speck in the eye" doesn't work here. How about starting with Not Bearing False Witness??
any chance these 3 albums could be reupped to a different site? i keep getting this msg from rapidshare:
ReplyDeleteThis file can only be downloaded by becoming a Premium member
First of all, Mr. Trott is not anti-Christian. It's amazing to me how anyone who does not subscribe to the right wing, white Jesus, fundamentalist dogma, they are suddenly deemed anti-Christian *SMH* I totally agree with you, however, re: grace. Maybe you should re-read your own words and extend them to Mr. Trott despite your own disagreement with his theology.
ReplyDeleteAnyways. I appreciate the posts. This music was foundational to my life. I am looking for anything by Tami Gunden!!
Mr Dillinger,
ReplyDeleteMy refernce to anti-Christian was a reference to the "liberal" views held by Trott (in case you didn't get the grammar).
Trott's Christianity allows for many things that historical and Biblical Christianity NEVER would endorse (of course, Jesus is the source of historical and Biblical Christianity).
Where did your view that I am or Jesus is or my Christianity is "white" come from? (Is that racism against those of certain skin colors?)
Jesus loved dogma and was quite dogmatic ("I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life...no one comes to the Father except through Me").
BTW - I never judged Trott with regards to grace, I CLEARLY judged his anti-Christian liberalism (grammar is important here)
Just a Bill...
ReplyDeleteI have actually PERSONALLY discussed MANY issues with Jon Trott and he is an OUTSPOKEN liberal (he describes himself as liberal without apology). Perhaps you ought to investigate before stating falsely that Trott is not liberal, since he has stated for himself many times that he is a proud liberal.
That does NOT implicate Glenn Kaiser as liberal in the same way that Trott is. (Glenn is probably the best known person affiliated with JPUSA and the founder of Rez Band). Glenn, who seems to disagree with Mr Trott on many issues actually appears to be conservative, according to his writings and teachings and lyrics.
I wrote specifically about Trott in my above reply, not JPUSA nor of Glenn K, nor Rez Band.
Furthermore, I also stated that Warnke has repented, so perhaps your indication that I wrote otherwise needs to be reviewed by yourself for accuracy.
Just a Bill, do you believe in grace and repentance? Do you believe a person can be restored after being under the authority of other pastors for a long time? Does the "false witness" you wrote about include telling half the truth?
These Q's need to be answered by yourself.
So, you both believe that liberalism and Christianity cannot co-exist? I tend to think by Jesus' associations and own words that he most likely felt differently.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, I meant what I said when I said "White Jesus": the Jesus that has been carried down through the ages to surpress, enslave and judge. I find it interesting that modern day Christians have become the very thing that Jesus came to tear down. Jesus' law was love, not this right wing agenda that Christians herald today as if they were modern day Pharisees.
It's sad to me that such a beautiful message has been transformed to such a message of hate.
Mr Dillinger, it is true and has already been proven repeatedly that modern liberalism is to Christianity as oil is to water. They do not...can not mix)
ReplyDeleteModern liberalism is one of the "new" ways that Satan deceives even some believers, as he tries to appear as an angel of light (yet there are many liberals who simply do not believe at all in the true Jesus of Scripture, since modern liberalism itself is against Jesus and His words).
Recently, most political liberals have come to realize that liberalism is coming to be known to be false and useless by most people (this has been proven by the most well-known liberals: those who founded Communism, fascism, etc in the 19th and 20th centuries).
Because the modern liberal worldview has been shown to be such an obvious failure, today's libs are now using the name "progressive" for their regressive views (the same views that already failed miserably under the title of "liberalism").
Eventually, religious liberals will get on board with the political libs and realize their worldview has been devastated (the religious libs will probably simply try to rename their view, too, while acting as though it is something different. Those who are rational and informed, however, will see through the lie of Satan they put forth, too).
This discussion will likely go nowhere unless we deal with specifics, so...liberalism will likely be dealt another fatal blow on this bulletin board, unless you aren't ready to defend it logically (then again, we all know that libs don't buy into that logic stuff, right?)
Another thing, Mr Dillinger: the haters of Jesus Himself and non-whites are not white people as your statement indicates (your statement is racist against whites).
ReplyDeleteIt would be VERY wise for you NOT to assume conservative people here or anywhere are white, because you will be proven wrong repeatedly.
The slaves were FREED in the USA during the Civil War because so many white men fought against the liberal Democrats who were the slave holders.
In actuality, the left are the group most responsible for disputing Jesus own words and works (and, as I stated above, it was the DEMOCRATS who fought to retain slavery during the Civil War...Lincoln was a Republican, just so you will be informed).
As far as "Jesus' law" that you wrote about: to Jesus, love never meant acting as though good was bad and bad was good.
What's REALLY sad is that so many (libs) are deceived into believing Satan's lies instead of accepting the obvious truths that Jesus spoke about in the Bible.
Mr Dillinger, it is true and has already been proven repeatedly that modern liberalism is to Christianity as oil is to water. They do not...can not mix)
ReplyDeleteModern liberalism is one of the "new" ways that Satan deceives even some believers, as he tries to appear as an angel of light (yet there are many liberals who simply do not believe at all in the true Jesus of Scripture, since modern liberalism itself is against Jesus and His words).
Recently, most political liberals have come to realize that liberalism is coming to be known to be false and useless by most people (this has been proven by the most well-known liberals: those who founded Communism, fascism, etc in the 19th and 20th centuries).
Because the modern liberal worldview has been shown to be such an obvious failure, today's libs are now using the name "progressive" for their regressive views (the same views that already failed miserably under the title of "liberalism").
Eventually, religious liberals will get on board with the political libs and realize their worldview has been devastated (the religious libs will probably simply try to rename their view, too, while acting as though it is something different. Those who are rational and informed, however, will see through the lie of Satan they put forth, too).
This discussion will likely go nowhere unless we deal with specifics, so...liberalism will likely be dealt another fatal blow on this bulletin board, unless you aren't ready to defend it logically (then again, we all know that libs don't buy into that logic stuff, right?)
Another thing, Mr Dillinger: the haters of Jesus Himself and non-whites are not white people as your statement indicates (your statement is racist against whites).
ReplyDeleteIt would be VERY wise for you NOT to assume conservative people here or anywhere are always white, because you will be proven wrong repeatedly.
The slaves were FREED in the USA during the Civil War because so many white men fought against the liberal Democrats who were the slave holders.
In actuality, the left are the group most responsible for disputing Jesus' own words and works (and, as I stated above, it was the DEMOCRATS who fought to retain slavery during the Civil War...Lincoln was a Republican, just so you will be informed).
As far as "Jesus' law" that you wrote about: to Jesus, love never meant acting as though good was bad and bad was good.
What's REALLY sad is that so many (libs) are deceived into believing Satan's lies instead of accepting the obvious truths that Jesus spoke about in the Bible.
Holy cow, guys I really think we should leave the politics outta this! It seems to be getting a little out of hand here, let's remember we're all brothers and sisters in Christ and we can disagree and still love each other.
ReplyDeleteI have obviously been deceived into Satan's wiles then. I do not--nor do I wish to know--the Jesus you know.
ReplyDeletebtw...obviously, as history has shown,, democrats and republicans have swapped political views (i am left-wing, but not partian).
ReplyDeletesecondly, i don't herald lincoln a some advocate who helped free slaves. he is recorded as saving that if he could have ended the war any other way he would have.
finally, your offense at my supposedly racist statement proves my point. i think you protest too much. i am white...so if i want to blame white jesus, i can. nor do i assume that all conservatives are white; however, i can assume that conservativism as we know it today is heralded by Christianity, which if i'm not mistaken, in it's American form began with white people. slaves did not get dragged to america praising white jesus. they were converted by their masters to believe in jesus, who they were taught said that they should obey their masters.
Finally, don't preach to me about logic. Mainstream christians believe in a physical rapture, a big trumpet sounding and people flying thru the air, talking animals and people turning to pillars of salt...THAT is not logic...that is absurd.
i'm done with this conversation.
Last time I checked, the Bible said a minister of the Gospel had to have a good reputation - gee, I think maybe that crosses Warnke out. Also, last time I checked, repentence - true repentence - entailed ADMITTING your lies, hypocrisy, etc. Warnke has NEVER made a public apology to the MASSES of people he blatantly LIED to in print, in concert, and on his recordings. EVER. All one has to do is listen to the three offerings here and you can easily see how his Christian "testimony" isn't cohesive - it's loaded with lies. Its foundation falters, and his so-called ministry is now meaningless, except when it comes to the souls saved by this lie-spewing ass of Baalam.
ReplyDeleteMr Dillinger,
ReplyDeleteObviously you have far more issues than you want to address here since you have chosen to end this conversation.
You have correctly stated that liberalism is not affiliated with "the Jesus (I) know" since I worship the Jesus of Scripture, not liberalism.
As to "racism" the saddest racist is the white man who blames every white man for other white and black mens' faults. I never was a slave, nor did I ever hold slaves, yet I know historically that some blacks held other blacks as slaves and some of those being held were then sold into slavery to other countries/races, including to American whites (as well as all around the world).
Racism knows no color nor boundary, for ALL shades of men have been held as slaves at one time or another (today people always focus on the short time span in the USA when black slaves were held). Of course that was wrong, but so was the holding and selling of blacks BY other brothers into slavery all around the world. So was it wrong when Egypt enslaved the Jews, on and on, slavery has know no boundary nor limit over the centuries.
Jesus was never white, and he NEVER became white based upon the people believing in Him. Racism is a crutch for the left, that is why so many non-whites are recently leaving their past associations with liberalism.
The preaching of Jesus went to the African continent (and MANY blacks were converted) LONG before the USA every came into being (the Bible and history prove this fact to be true), so Jesus is no "color" - He is everyman and EVERY color.
So you think that logic prevents God from doing the supernatural like turning Job's wife into a pillar of salt, or animals donkey talking? (You wrote that these are "absurd." Interestingly, you have proven my point: liberals DON'T believe in the Scripture (Jesus' own words), hence liberalism and Christianity DO not mix (just like oil and water).
Mr Dillinger,
ReplyDeleteObviously you have far more issues than you want to address here since you have chosen to end this conversation.
You have correctly stated that liberalism is not affiliated with "the Jesus (I) know" since I worship the Jesus of Scripture, not liberalism.
As to "racism" the saddest racist is the white man who blames every white man for other white and black mens' faults. I never was a slave, nor did I ever hold slaves, yet I know historically that some blacks held other blacks as slaves and some of those being held were then sold into slavery to other countries/races, including to American whites (as well as all around the world).
Racism knows no color nor boundary, for ALL shades of men have been held as slaves at one time or another (today people always focus on the short time span in the USA when black slaves were held). Of course that was wrong, but so was the holding and selling of blacks BY other brothers into slavery all around the world. So was it wrong when Egypt enslaved the Jews, on and on, slavery has know no boundary nor limit over the centuries.
Jesus was never white, and he NEVER became white based upon the people believing in Him. Racism is a crutch for the left, that is why so many non-whites are recently leaving their past associations with liberalism.
The preaching of Jesus went to the African continent (and MANY blacks were converted) LONG before the USA every came into being (the Bible and history prove this fact to be true), so Jesus is no "color" - He is everyman and EVERY color.
So you think that logic prevents God from doing the supernatural like turning Lot's wife into a pillar of salt (Gen 28:18), or animals such as Balaam's donkey talking (Num 22:27-29)? (You wrote that these are "absurd." Interestingly, you have proven my point: liberals DON'T believe in the Scripture (Jesus' own words), hence liberalism and Christianity DO not mix (just like oil and water).
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter whether you are convinced that Mike Warnke has truly repented or not. That's a separate issue from this one fact:
ReplyDeleteMike Warnke's tales about his life and background are nothing but lies.
Now, if you appreciate his comic delivery, and the way he tells his bogus stories makes you laugh out loud, then go ahead and enjoy his records. It's a free country, and one can appreciate a stand-up comic for their abilities apart from the truthfulness (or lack thereof) of his stories.
Personally, I never found Mike to be all that funny, although I did find his first record, "Alive," to be extremely engaging and the best thing he ever did. It's unfortunate that very little of it is true, but his storytelling skills are impressive.
Mr Dillinger,
ReplyDeleteObviously you have far more issues than you want to address here since you have chosen to end this conversation.
You have correctly stated that liberalism is not affiliated with "the Jesus (I) know" since I worship the Jesus of Scripture, not liberalism.
As to "racism" the saddest racist is the white man who blames every white man for other white and black mens' faults. I never was a slave, nor did I ever hold slaves, yet I know historically that some blacks held other blacks as slaves and some of those being held were then sold into slavery to other countries/races, including to American whites (as well as all around the world).
Racism knows no color nor boundary, for ALL shades of men have been held as slaves at one time or another (today people always focus on the short time span in the USA when black slaves were held). Of course that was wrong, but so was the holding and selling of blacks BY other brothers into slavery all around the world. So was it wrong when Egypt enslaved the Jews, on and on, slavery has know no boundary nor limit over the centuries.
Jesus was never white, and he NEVER became white based upon the people believing in Him. Racism is a crutch for the left, that is why so many non-whites are recently leaving their past associations with liberalism.
The preaching of Jesus went to the African continent (and MANY blacks were converted) LONG before the USA every came into being (the Bible and history prove this fact to be true), so Jesus is no "color" - He is everyman and EVERY color.
According to your post, you think that logic prevents God from doing the supernatural like turning Lot's wife into a pillar of salt (Gen 28:18), or animals such as Balaam's donkey talking (Num 22:27-29)? (You wrote that these are "absurd." Interestingly, you have proven my point: liberals DON'T believe in the Scripture (Jesus' own words), hence liberalism and Christianity DO not mix (just like oil and water).
Anonymous, I just want to restate that as I have posted, this is NOT simply about politics...I have made it very clear that I am concerned about modern liberal theology, NOT primarily liberal political theory.
ReplyDeleteThose who claim to be Christians and at the same time adherents to modern liberalism also 99% of the time endorse perversions like homosexuality; abortion (ie - murder of babies); they DON'T believe the Bible is God's inerrant Word, but they pick and choose whatever makes them feel good inside and disagree with the rest, contrary to Jesus' commands to believe His Word (none of it will fail, He said, meaning it is ALL 100% true in Matthew 5:18). This list of liberal anti-Christian beliefs goes on in so many other unbelievable ways, it is sickening to true believers in Jesus.
The libs usually give as their justfication for not following Jesus' Word (if they attempt to make any justification at all) that they don't want people to feel bad for being sinners, so it is against their views to tell people that they are sinners or call anything sinful. But, Jesus made it completely clear that NOBODY is going to become a Christian without FIRST repenting of their sinfulness and sinful acts (that requires one to admit that s/he is a sinner, so sin MUST be pointed out and admitted to for what it is before any person can be saved - this proves liberalism will never allow a person to be saved).
These issues are not primarily political...nope, they are spiritual because they speak to the utter depravity of the liberals who disagree with many of the specific things Jesus has spoken to.
We either believe in Jesus' words or we are liars
I didn't know this comment list had become a debate blog ;)
ReplyDeletePersonally, I've had enough of Mike Warnke....and would like to see some more "real" music posted.
Thanks
Mike Warnke never repented - he is a lying son of a bitch.
ReplyDeleteI was a huge Mike Warnke fan back in his prime- when he was telling all of his lies. Seeker says he has been "restored." My question is, since he never had a valid ministry based on truth, he came to fame based on a completely fabricated testimoney, what has he been restored to? He was a con artist from the very beginning. He was not a legitimate minister that fell into sin, he was a con man, womanizer, and fraud. I hope he has truely come to God now, but he has no business in public ministry.
ReplyDeletewhether or not mike has repented shouldn't be up for discussion here. whether or not mike should continue public ministry probably shouldn't be up for discussion here, but i suppose is fair game if people really want to. the recordings themselves, its seems to me, should be the discussion at hand. i feel that if you, the informed listener, still find enjoyment or even encouragement from these recordings, knowing the artist/minister has been "debunked", fine. however, i think it might be irresponsible to distribute them as evangelical materials. sapling converts can be easily "choked" out of establishing firm roots if they realize they've been lied to and become disillusioned. there is a reason the bible holds that teachers/preachers are held to stricter judgement from god than others. sure, every soul is responsible for their own beliefs about god regardless of the bad behaviour of others (ie, "mike was a liar, therefore i didn't believe in you" will not be a reasonable excuse), but helping others fall is a terrible thing.
ReplyDeleteregarding the liberal vs conservative discussion...probably not appropriate for this blog, but if truly desired, perhaps it should be welcome. however, is it really productive? i've rarely seen the discussion handled properly. liberal bashing, from the pulpit or informal, very often twists biblical truths to support an overall conservative world view rather than attack specific issues making it an "us vs them" scenario rather than a truth seeking mission. liberal bashing is a sin, in my opinion. its divisive, unproductive and focuses energy away from our prime directive. instead of alienating liberal christians and liberal "sinners" (ie, homosexuals) the message of god's love for all should become a unifying theme in our lives. its funny to me how some seem to think their sin of hate and exclusion of others is somehow better than the sin of homosexuality. i wouldn't be careless enough to tell someone that abortion isn't sin or that homosexuality isn't sin, but neither would i want to alienate them from the cross by sending so many negative messages out either. its not up to sinners to become free from sin BEFORE they can come to jesus, they come to jesus with all their sin and let him do his work in their lives and WE welcome them.
ReplyDeleteUntil just this evening, I had no knowledge of anything questionable in Mike Warnke's life. I have several of his tapes from back in the 80s and still listen to them. The message he gives has never been anything but uplifting for me. What the status of his repentence is at this time is between him and God. It doesn't change the message he gave, however he gave it - that Jesus died for our sins, God's grace is free and given if we only ask for it, with no conditions or questions asked. Even Peter, the favourite disciple of Jesus, denied that he even knew him. If we wait for perfect, sinless people to carry the message, there would be no message, and not a single church in which to worship. Look at the content, not the container.
ReplyDeleteI’m sorry, I know these posts are old, but I really am tired of hearing people talk about “right-wing” Christians like they are some sort of a ghoul from a horror flick. You want to be a modern liberal and be Christian? Ok.. Only pick out the parts of the Bible that you want to, stop using the words “repent” and “hell” and start saying things like “Jesus is not the only way to God” because that is what you are signing up for. Be ready to support the slaughter of unborn children, support gay marriage and sex outside of marriage, no matter what the Bible says about it. Remember, you are only going to follow the parts you like.
ReplyDeleteGive me a break. If you can honestly go along with the modern agenda of the left today, I would really question whether you are a Christian or not. Wait.. here comes the Alinsky tactics.. call conservatives racists, even though it has nothing to do with race. Call them hate-mongers because they believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong. I’m so tired of the lies, the double standards. Seriously.. If you are a modern liberal, you really need to realize that most likely, you are not a Christian. Read the Bible. That is the word of God. It’s all very clear. Stop being blinded by the lies of the world. Stop running your mouth and repeating what your favorite celebrity says and READ THE BIBLE. Repent, Trust in Christ, Pray, Read His Word, Grow Spiritually, and you’ll stop living a lie. Sorry for the dramatic typing, but it’s an important subject.
I am the one that just left the message saying "READ THE BIBLE". I should have added this, so I am now. Before anyone assumes anything about me. I am a Black Woman, baby, and I'm proud of it. I am Born Again, Conservative, Black, Female, American and Proud. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteTim Dillinger said, "i'm done with this conversation."
ReplyDelete... for which I'm grateful. You added heat but no light.
Your arguments were typical for shallow, self-righteous liberals who believe what they're told, all the while criticizing conservatives for doing that very thing, which, if you has paid attention to Seeker, you would have seen that he had the facts at his command, not euphemisms, catchphrases and innuendo, which, while not the exclusive domain of the liberals, are used by them because it's easier to feign knowledge that way and dismiss those who disagree with umbrage (as you did), without actually using or showing any knowledge facts (but having the self-righteous disdain down pat!).
Look again at your remarks and see that you showed us no knowledge, only bias, contempt and disdain.
But that is the liberal way... once again, all the while criticizing the conservatives for being that way.
The man's entire ministry was based upon lies. The ministry finances were just to make him and whichever woman he was married to at the time rich.
ReplyDeleteI read his book "The Satan Seller". It seemed believable. That is until the timeline was traced. Then it fell apart.
His website seems to exist to just sell things and shift blame for his actions to others with vendettas against him.
I guess forgiveness is for the next world. I am sure there must be a laugh in here somewhere, but so far all I read are trash Mike, Mike's trash. I never met the guy, but if there's one thing I've learned, majority opinion is generally wrong, so I can't wait to meet this guy in the next world. He's probably going to be hysterical. hahahahaha!!!
ReplyDeleteSICK! I am bored with the race labels. How's this for judgement? Some of you people here are judging God as irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteIn Genesis, we read that man was made from the dust of the earth. In Acts 17, I find that we're made of One Blood.
Who are we to entertain this race rubbish then?
Jon, you already destroyed the man, his message, and to some extent, the Gospel. Isn't that enough? Can't you leave it be now? Or was that the pinnacle of your career, to be revisited for a lifetime, by trolling blogs for any slightly positive reference to Mr. Warnke. Do have any idea how pathetic that is? I wonder if you could stand against that same level of scrutiny yourself. Sadly, I once respected you. I won't make that mistake again.
ReplyDelete